Lindsay Podvin Financial Therapist Ann Arbor Michigan

How to Reshape Your Money Mindset

In this episode, I interview Lindsay, a licensed financial therapist. In this episode, we talk about money, business, mindset, and relationships, and how money seems to play a role in all of these. We started talking about race and how it relates to money. And Lindsay started talking about a series that she was doing for millionaires featuring people who don’t, on average look like the billionaires.

Lindsay

Just today, I started a millionaire Monday series. And that is where I’m highlighting people who are millionaires, or soon to be millionaires who don’t fit the stereotypical profile of what we think of as millionaires. So research shows that when people think of the word millionaire, the image that tends to come to mind is an older white male. And I believe that representation is so so important. And for so many people, if they think that I can’t be a millionaire, because people like me aren’t millionaires, then that can prevent them from taking those steps towards achieving financial comfort or financial freedom. It doesn’t necessarily have to be millionaire status. But with this series, I’m getting profiles of people who fit the who fit outside of that stereotype. So very excited about that, too.

Melody

Right? Yeah, that’s great. And I know both you and I share kind of a similar heritage. We’re both Filipino American. And I was talking with another podcaster. And we were both talking about how our mindsets are shaped as we are growing up. And sometimes I can’t speak for everybody, I can only speak for myself. Sometimes I remember growing up, we really didn’t talk about money. Based on my upbringing, money was something that was considered evil or bad, because my parents were just under the idea that having money meant that you were really being greedy, and that it’s much better to be generous with your money. And so I kind of had this really different thought pattern growing up, that getting more money was an act of selfishness. 

And so I had to really shape my mindset as I’ve grown into adulthood to change that mentality. Because getting money isn’t necessarily bad and acquiring wealth, and helping others isn’t something that I’m trying to avoid, want to help people. But I also definitely want to make sure that my needs are taken care of as well as some of my wants. So can you tell us a little bit about if you feel comfortable, your mindset and how you’ve grown over the last couple of years? And if it’s at all been shaped by your upbringing? 

Lindsay

Yea my kind of money mindset has shifted over the years, probably like many people, the story that I’m hearing you say is this idea that having money means you’re bad. And I mean, I’m generalizing, of course. But that is a mindset that I hear a lot of people in here too. And I didn’t necessarily get that messaging growing up. But I certainly did get that, like, you should take care of yourself. But you also shouldn’t talk about money, really. Um, and I was fortunate enough to have a mom who was very good at educating I have, I grew up with four younger sisters in the house as well. So I had a mom who, anytime we would go to the bank, she would just kind of narrate what she was doing. And honestly, I thinking having exposure to that helped me just to have a greater understanding of finances and personal finances. So when we’d be in line at the bank, she’d be saying, Okay, this isn’t the I’m filling out a deposit slip, oh, you see those numbers up there, that means a certificate of deposit. Let me tell you what that means. 

And I think so many people didn’t have that. And we also had a little bit of financial education growing up in, like the money that you earned when you were still in the house. So any money you got for a birthday, or if you were working babysitting, or anything like that a certain amount of it, had to go into a bank account that we had my name on it, but I couldn’t touch it until I was out of the house. So I had a lot of those money lessons growing up. And I think because that was my exposure to money, it kind of shocked me when I met other people who were like, really in the dark about money. And then I realized how fortunate I was to have had that type of exposure. And then my money mindset has kind of had this shift to now I feel really comfortable talking about money again. But for a while, I felt like I had to kind of go backwards to make other people comfortable because they didn’t like talking about money, if that makes sense. 

Lindsay

Yeah. And I think that’s really fortunate that your mother was able to talk through those things and explained it to you. And, you know, this is what I’m doing. Because, like you said, many people don’t have that kind of communication around money, we kind of hide behind Oh, yeah, I’m doing fine. Or, you know, sometimes it’s the opposite, where some women who are incredibly successful, feel bad for sharing what their successes are. And maybe if you’re talking about salary in the workplace, it’s considered, you know, bad to talk about it. So, I also think that on the opposite side of people who maybe aren’t as successful financially, they sometimes feel ashamed, because they don’t want other people to know that they’re not on time with their credit card payments, or they have some collections to their name, or, you know, they’re paying extra and high interest credit cards, because it’s been difficult, and they just let it grow and grow until it’s really big. And now they’re trying to figure out how to actually take care of it. And at that point, it gets to be so much harder to actually take care of it, when it could have been a lot easier by having a conversation and then it’d be fun.

Melody 

So just let me ask you, I’m going to transition our topic from mindset over to entrepreneurship because a lot of my listeners are business owners. In your business, I know that you’ve been extremely successful with booking your clients, and you’ve been able to network many other people, can you tell us a little bit more about your start in entrepreneurship and how it relates to your money mindset. And then if you could go over any types of investments that you made, both mentally, or monetarily that you felt really helped propel you to the level where you’re at now?

Lindsay

Well, thank you, I appreciate that, you know, you can see kind of what’s been happening and you know, being an entrepreneur, that what we see, you know, we don’t see all the behind the scenes and the years of questioning that lead up to a person’s like, nice Instagram post. So I took what I like to say is like a calculated risk moving into the world of entrepreneurship, I was employed full time at a very stable job in a very good healthcare research organization for years and years. And I started seeing clients occasionally on the side, like one day a week on Sundays for several months, and I had joined a practice. So for people who are in the therapy world, or who are familiar with it, it’s pretty common for people when they’re going into private practice, to join a group. And essentially, it’s, it’s kind of like a co op model, where you share space, and you share resources, such as help with like billing, software, all that stuff. And then you essentially give them a percentage of what you bring in. So that’s what I did. And eventually, I think it took me like eight months of doing that type of work like one day a week, for me to then just kind of go all in. So it might have seemed seven, if you didn’t know that I was doing that for that whole time. So I didn’t go straight from working full time to full time entrepreneurship, I kind of stepped in, I tell when. 

And then after being in that space for a while I got certified in financial therapy, and then I realized I had to really start marketing myself, because previously, my specialty had been in anxiety and depression. And while I love that work, you don’t really advertise for it in the world of therapy, you you tend to say things like you accept everyone, you treat every condition. And it’s still a little bit uncomfortable or new, I don’t know the exact right word for therapists to start marketing themselves. So I really didn’t have anybody to look at to figure it out. So I just decided, all I’ll just give it a try. So I told myself for the year 2019, I’ll just put myself out there all, you know, read the blogs, listen to different podcasts on entrepreneurship and try and figure it out. And it has been quite a learning curve. But I have to say that I have just been blown away by the type of community and the types of responses that I’ve gotten by putting not necessarily myself out there. But the type of work that I do out there, and just how much talking about money is needed. And not just in a dollars and cents way, right? 

Melody 

Yeah, definitely. And I think that what you’re saying, with just taking that step from doing a side hustle, you really did the work beforehand. So you saw that there was a need, and you saw that you had a skill set, and you’re able to then just take that next large leap into entrepreneurship. And good for you, you know, researching and doing that homework and listening to the podcast is absolutely a great way to educate yourself. and empower yourself to take that next step. Because I find that a lot of times people have this mindset of, I’m just going to, you know, plan and plan and dream and dream. And yet there’s no action, but you took that action, you said I’m going to choose change this for myself, and I’m going to do something different. And in speaking of that transition, I know that some people listening to the podcast have significant others, maybe they’re in a relationship or they’re married or soon to be married, taking that step into account. How did the transition go for you and your partner while you are transitioning to full time entrepreneurship? Did you feel like you kind of prepared your partner for that transition?

Lindsay

Yeah, I am. I’m so fortunate because my partner, my husband, I’ve been married for almost 10 years. So we’ve been married for almost five years, but we’ve been together for over 10 that’s where the time. But he’s been amazing along this whole journey, essentially, like at first, when I first started going out he has kind of mindset was just like, as long as you, you know, are making money, I don’t care keep doing it. But when it came to taking the bigger leap of leaving that kind of cushy job, we had a really serious series of discussions because things like all the benefits were under me. So we had to make sure that the dollars made sense in order for me to leave that job. So once we figured out, you know, kind of crunch the numbers and saw how many clients I would have to see in order for our lifestyle to continue as is and to continue saving and investing towards our goals. 

Once we found that number, and we both felt comfortable with me taking that leap, then I took that leap. And even now like as I mentioned at the beginning, with my practice being full and still kind of trying to figure out what else I can do to bring my services to more people. And he’s kind of in that same position again of like you do you just you know, as long as you keep bringing in your paycheck, so I like give myself a paycheck, right? I don’t He’s like, I don’t care. It just you know, as long as the household money flow, cash flow is the same. You keep working in a way that feels good for you. So I’m really, really yeah,

Melody

that’s awesome. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And that’s kind of how I feel as well, I’m fortunate to have my husband who’s really supportive of my endeavors. And same thing, it was me doing the side hustle of coaching on the side, and really just I loved it, absolutely loved it. And, and then you know, taking a step back and realizing, okay, let me do this calculation of how much I’m making now, and how much I would need to make to transition. And then really having, as you said, very similar kind of thing, that conversation, because I find that a lot of times, if people are in a relationship with their, you know, significant other. If they’re making that transition, you’re really need that support of people around you, whether it’s family or friends, your loved ones, you’re going to have some long nights, you’re going to have, you know, obviously you want to have balance, but there’s going to be times when you really need to put your nose to the grind. And you have have to have the support of those people to be able to stay on track, because it’s absolutely easy to burn out. And without that support system without that help, you know, that little encouragement, it can be difficult. And I’m really glad that you have that support.

Lindsay

Thank you. Yeah, I so agree, it can be really easy to feel like you’re kind of going it alone, especially as entrepreneurship turns more and more towards solo printer ship. So it’s just so important to have other people and support systems in your life.

Melody

Absolutely. And speaking of support, obviously, you did a lot of research on your own. Did you at any time kind of look for mentorship to help you with the transition into your business with, you know, other kinds of people who are doing the same thing as you? Or did you just charge your own path and kind of research everything?

Lindsay

A little bit of both. I am a researcher by nature. I worked in psychiatric research, so I am an expert in Google is what I like to call myself. So I did a little bit of both. I mean, I connected with other people who were in the private practice space and did a lot of like, coffees and like lunch and learns and stuff like that. And that was so helpful. But going back to this idea of just like putting yourself out there, I actually connected with a group of women via Instagram, who are not exactly a solopreneurship kind of thing we meet up. 

Finally,  we meet up like two times a month, and every call it a mastermind. The dance is where which get like 30 minutes to kind of where they’re at a problem that we’re having and turn it back on it. And then other times, during that month, you have kind of a topic that we present on on really cool to have you are able to coach each other and help each other. And so I would say just a little bit,

Melody

Yes, there’s this competitive edge between women in corporate. And there was oftentimes when I actually felt that me trying to think outside of the box and be creative, was considered stepping on somebody else’s toes. And you know, that’s definitely not at all what I had intended. But you know, I don’t know if you’ve ever felt that way before. I definitely have. Because I’m very ambitious. And I love helping people. And so I love that entrepreneurial women that I’ve met, never, at least in my experience have been about competition. It’s just more about support.

Lindsay

Yeah, oh, yeah, you can’t see me but I’m not I was nodding my head the whole time, you were just sharing that information. Because it’s such a common story, right? Like, oh, I spoke up and I essentially got shot down or I was kind of pulled aside after the meeting and told you know, that’s kind of so and so’s lane, you might want to be mindful The next time you speak up. And the beauty entrepreneur so much better, I love it. 

And people that I follow or connect with that I like to have that at your best, like, there isn’t a fixed amount of release in the world for entrepreneurs, like the more you give any learn and share and grow, the more opportunities there are. So it doesn’t feel like stepping on somebody else’s shoulders. 

Melody

So I love to take pride, you know, you have taken that journey away from things that felt restricted, or things in many ways, it can be a bad thing.  So actually, I’m the oldest daughter of four. So similar to you, I actually have two sisters and one brother. And so growing up, we had tons of families events together. And so one of the birthday parties, I will was at an event with about 30 other family members celebrating my birthday, which was great. But the problem was that one of my family members, it was time to cut the cake. And she wanted to give the cake to other people before me. And so I’m not saying that was bad, necessarily. And it’s it’s good to help other people. 

But I think it formed a thought pattern in my mind that it doesn’t matter if you have something to celebrate in your life, because other people need to be taken care of before you. And I think that that was something I really had to grow out of. And so when I took a step into entrepreneurship, where I said, Okay, I’m finally doing something for myself, it was really hard. Because I took on the idea that everyone’s more important, my family’s more important everybody else, except for me. And so when I did that, I realized this is unselfish, this is actually actually taking care of myself, I can still take care of all my bills, everything’s going to be okay. And I’m just really glad that we has been lifted off my shoulders. And that’s really what I want to tell other women is that you don’t have to wait until you’re 65 to live the life that you want, you can live it right now. You can do all the research, and you can take that action. And there are women out there who can support you and nurture you and listen to you. And it’s the only person who’s standing in your way between you and the life that you want is yourself. And so if you take that action, you can actually do what you want.

Lindsay

Yeah. And you’re so right, that we we get this messaging that if we put ourselves last, then we’re being good, kind of going back to that idea. Like, if you give your money away, then you’re a good person. But really, what I find is, the more we invest in ourselves, the more energy and space we have have for others, whether it’s somebody like a significant other, or whether it is the clients that we see, the more we invest in ourselves, the more that we can kind of give back to everybody else around us. And that goes with money too, right? Like, the more we can bring in, the more generous we can be, it’s really hard to give away money and be generous if you don’t have a lot coming in.

Melody

Yeah, absolutely. And I think that has a lot to do with not only your personal finances, but also with your business. So growing your business requires that you really have to charge higher rates. And I think it’s scary to charge higher rates, because you might think to yourself, Well, you know, I’m just gonna charge a little bit, it’s probably not worth that much. Because there’s this internal thought in your mind, or, you know, I’ve actually experienced this myself, I don’t feel like I’m qualified to charge this much. But the reality is, if you’re going to make that step into entrepreneurship, you have to be able to charge enough to cover your bills. And then some, because there’s other things considerations, like expenses for taxes, if you want to hire somebody to help you out as a virtual assistant, if you want to be able to have a marketing budget, because you need a marketing budget in order to attract clientele, to generate sales. Those are all the kinds of things that I feel like when people talk about, oh, you know, I’m a six figure blogger, you think, Oh, well, they’re making so much money. And it’s not that hard of work. But the reality is, there’s a lot of extra expenses that you need to think about in order to get where you want to go. And in order to do that you have to invest in yourself in charge what you’re worth.

Lindsay

Mm hmm. No, totally. And, and to your point, like, not only do you have to pay for marketing and for software, and for things like that, but you also have to pay yourself, you know, so it’s it’s huge. I mean, I remember when I raised my rates, and you know, this whole back and forth thing of like, Can I can I not? What are people going to think are my clients gonna leave blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And I raised them after much deliberation, which is hysterical, because I’m a financial therapist, like, if I was telling somebody else what to do, I would have told them just raise your rates, stop thinking about it. But when I did raise my rates, not only did I get no pushback from any of my clients, but I had a client Tell me like, yeah, you should have raised your hands a long time ago. him I was like, Oh, my gosh, here we go.

Melody

Yeah, so it sounds like this is just a common thread for anyone really, is that the biggest hurdle that we have to overcome? Is our own thoughts?

Lindsay

Oh, yeah, of course, of course. Because those are, those are the things we wake up to and go to bed with every single night. You know, it’s it’s beautiful to have other people and other supports in your life. But if you can’t go to sleep with the thoughts in your head, that’s your that’s your detriment? You know?

Melody

Yeah. So, um, I just love the fact that you really been able to connect with other people, people in your personal finance niche. And I know that after having met you online, you’re so collaborative. And you’ve always been able to go on tours, and I see you speaking to other people. And I just always just curious how you’ve been able to network so successfully, and how other people can also learn from you in this respect.

Lindsay

Yeah, absolutely. Just be shameless. Honestly, I know it sounds so scary to put yourself out there. But that’s one of the the best things that you can do. And when I say shameless, I’m not just like spamming people, I really, truly following along with people, whether it is via a podcast, or Instagram or through like an email newsletter, I follow people who I enjoy what they have to say, and the things that they talk about resonate with me. And the way that I do it is I reach out to people isn’t one, I think there is a good overlap. And I really, I don’t say, Hey, can you put me on your show, I say things like, Hey, I love what you’re doing. This really resonates with me, these are the types of things I talk about, I think your audience would really love to hear about it. So you offer something to them, rather than just asking, like, Can you put me on your blog, and that works, you know, so many people get all these copy and paste cold emails of somebody saying like, hey, promote my product. 

And, you know, they’ll just end up in the spam folder versus like, hey, I’ve been genuinely following along with you for three months, a year, or whatever it is. And I love what you have to stick to say, and I would love to be able to bring something to your audience, bring something to your followers. So that’s really what I did. And I just keep doing it. Let me just keep emailing and dm and like with this new millionaire Monday series. I dm’d and emailed a bunch of people that I knew. And then at the end of each one of those emails I sent Look, if this isn’t a good fit for you, do you have anybody in mind who you think you might be able to connect me with? And that’s the other thing is like people are happy to help as well. If you are being genuine and coming from a place of giving and serving and sharing.

Melody

Yeah, I love that you first started with relationship, because there are times when I receive DMS and emails from people who just say how can I get on your show, and I have this really great thing that I want to talk about. And I just want to take a step back a little bit and think, wow, you know, I don’t know you, I don’t know what you’re about, you kind of just messaged me, and I have no relationship with you at all. And so I’m not really inclined to put you on the podcast. And I feel like it’s a little unsettling because I have, you know, done similar things in the past, where I’ve been following different people online. But I do try to make connections and have a relationship with the people that I want to network with. And I’m not just really forcing myself onto them, I’m starting a conversation, I offer something that might be helpful. And then if they don’t like it, they don’t like it. And like you said, maybe they know somebody who does.

Lindsay

And the worst thing that happens when you’re reaching out to these people and genuinely reaching out is you don’t hear anything back. Like the odds that you get a message back that’s like, how dare you email me it just won’t happen. And you know, if they don’t like what you have to say, I’m just not going to respond to you. And you know, that’s okay, we can do that.

Melody

So cool. Well, I love everything that you’ve been chatting about. Let me just ask you one final question. And that is what kind of encouragement would you tell anyone who is struggling with their money mindset that needs a little encouragement. Um,

Wealthy Mindset Journal

Lindsay

So what I would tell anybody who is struggling with their money mindset is to just give themselves a little bit of breathing room and space or grace, or however you want to phrase it because money is complicated, not in not in a math way, right? Like the math of money is pretty easy. But in the way that we all have stories that we’ve learned about money, we all have different responses to it physically, emotionally, psychologically, when we think about it, and we have to interact with it all the time. So even if you’ve tried a budget for a week, or a month or whatever, and you’re not still not feeling great, like just give yourself some space, it took you 2535 40 years, however old you are, to get the to the space that you’re in right now with your money. So give yourself nine to nurture your financial relationship. So that’s what I said everyone was just like, give yourself some time.

Melody

And where could people find you if they wanted to learn more about you and your services and what’s going on in your business?

Lindsay

Yes, so as you know, my Instagram handle is mind money balance. I’m pretty active. Oh, there. I have just returned to Facebook. After a decade hiatus. I’m trying to figure out how it works. I have literally been watching YouTube videos of Facebook for seniors to try and figure it out. And then for sure, on my website mind money balance, calm.

Melody

Perfect. Awesome. Well, thanks, Lindsay. I’m really excited to share about money and mindset and how we can have a better and healthier relationship with it. So thank you so much for being on the show

You can find out more about Lindsay on her website and social media platforms. 

https://www.mindmoneybalance.com/

https://www.instagram.com/mindmoneybalance/

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